chris: they win. >> they're afraid of a debt ceiling confrontation or actually defaulting on the debt. they don't want to be blamed for that. >> the tea party people are not here to legislate. they're here to de'mon strailt. -- to demonstrate. they didn't get to do it on the fiscal cliff in the end. they want to do it to something and go over the edge. and this will take them over the edge and they will lose politically and the president is going to have to scramble to shut things down. and credit ratings will be affected. chris: when is the public going to make a verdict on whether they like that kind of behavior? >> they sort of did in the last election. chris: and 12 of our regulars including you, howard, can president obama split off enough republicans to win the big fights copping up on debt and the budget -- coming up on debt and the budget and guns? eight say yes. four say no. howard, you voted with the majority nt at least on the debt and budget issues and you're wary on the gun thing. >> yeah. and for the reasons that john was saying. because a lot of democrats who will be ru